Pete Carroll: Then v. The Week of 11/13

[SeaHawksHuddle]

1. You have to provide two numbers.
2. The first is how you felt about the Pete Carroll hire when it happened at the beginning of 2010.
3. The second is how you feel about him this week after this last game (if you are listed below, you only have to provide this number).
4. The scale is 1-10. 10 means you think he will do amazing things for the Seahawks and turn them into a dynasty. 1 is obviously the opposite of that.
5. This particular thread pertains to this week only. It will be closed after this week and we will post another next week.
6. Please try and be as accurate as possible about your "Then" number. It will stick with you from week to week (i.e. we will track them so you cannot go back and say, "See? I've always said he will be awesome," when he perennially sucks or vice versa).

 

[SeaHawksHuddle]

I am still a 5. Great win, but penalties and the inability to get touchdowns with starting positions on the Baltimore 19, 18, and 4 yard lines was a real disappointment for me.

 

[Fenom]

8: Upset over the Ravens bumps him up half a point.

 

[#ONE]

Last week was 6 after cowboys loss. Now 6.5 after Ravens game. Really impressed with the secondary play. Hasnt that always been Pets forte?

 

[bobflipaburger]

Same

 

[szat]

I give him an 8 this week. Great win, I liked his enthusism on the sidelines, he even got 'fired up' alittle bit.
I like his even keeled press conferences, he doesnt go off the deep end (Mora!) when we loose, and he doesnt gloat (too much) when we win.

 

[twelvewins]

I'm really impressed by pc this week. I know he missed with clipboard Jesus, but seeing Tarvaris lead the offense @the end and beast mode showing mad juke moves to outthink instead of outpower Baltimore was a treat. I'm back to 9.

 

[JustDoug]

Liked the graph, so here goes:
Starting score was between zero and maybe a two at the time; call it a good solid plus one.
Current score is somewhere between negative ten and no faith at all; call it negative ten.
Guess that's minus eleven overall.

Jack Patera, Chuck Knox, Dennis Erickson, or Mike Homgren... PC just doesn't measure up to any of them.

We still have no team identity on offense other than bottom of the league statistics. Wouldn't have anything to brag about on defense if it wasn't for the rise in Mebane stock, and that can't be credited to this head coach. Upper round draftees not even playing anymore this year, and their careers will be shortened by severe injuries leading towards arthritis. Gifts like Baldwin were probably the result of an active general manager and not the coach. The pre-season games actually turned out to be more important than this weeks regular season matchup agains the Rams as far as total team development.

If you score this head coach above zero, then I wish you Luck, but I don't see that happening either...And why is it that I can get better information from opposing team's websites than from ours? What the hell does Paul Allen do for a living?

Doug

 

[bobflipaburger]

Liked the graph, so here goes:
Starting score was between zero and maybe a two at the time; call it a good solid plus one.
Current score is somewhere between negative ten and no faith at all; call it negative ten.
Guess that's minus eleven overall.

Jack Patera, Chuck Knox, Dennis Erickson, or Mike Homgren... PC just doesn't measure up to any of them.

We still have no team identity on offense other than bottom of the league statistics. Wouldn't have anything to brag about on defense if it wasn't for the rise in Mebane stock, and that can't be credited to this head coach. Upper round draftees not even playing anymore this year, and their careers will be shortened by severe injuries leading towards arthritis. Gifts like Baldwin were probably the result of an active general manager and not the coach. The pre-season games actually turned out to be more important than this weeks regular season matchup agains the Rams as far as total team development.

If you score this head coach above zero, then I wish you Luck, but I don't see that happening either...And why is it that I can get better information from opposing team's websites than from ours? What the hell does Paul Allen do for a living?

Doug

Wow, you don't want to give him any credit for anything do you?

 

[#ONE]

Yeah its all Mebane out there by himself, playing DT, DE, LB, and DB on defense. Right?

You don't have to like the guy, but give credit where credit is due. Pete took over a horrid aging team with 1 or 2 false Seahawks.com overhyped players like Lofa and Trufant. He started from scratch and in 1.5 years has turned this team into a "blue print" for long term future success. All teams have to rebuild, look at the Colts. Look at GB. They went through it, they just had a future HOF playing for them and another one on the bench waiting to take over.

Look at our Oline. Something Russell refused to address for years! Pete and John know it starts up front and they weren't afraid to spend high round picks on it.

Anyways man, I know people are entitled to their options, and so are you... but yours is whack.

 

[JustDoug]

ONE:
Addressing the o-line wasn't some draft genious coache's move, as much as it was absolutely necessary, and the rest of the league thought it was whack to take Carpenter with that high of a pick considering what was available. Replacing older players with younger players is also something that eventually just happens because it's roster necessary. I'm not ignoring your points, but these things would have happened regardless.

Bobflipaburger:
PC has said that he wants players that can do special things...My assumption was that he would bring a new, lost, or forgotten stratgy that other teams couldn't exactly game plan for very well, yet I see nothing of the sort. Let's not confuse the General Manager responsible for stirring up the pot and acquiring talent, with the head coach position. Perhaps I am missing something, so what do you credit him for?

 

[tonos253]

ONE:
Addressing the o-line wasn't some draft genious coache's move, as much as it was absolutely necessary, and the rest of the league thought it was whack to take Carpenter with that high of a pick considering what was available. Replacing older players with younger players is also something that eventually just happens because it's roster necessary. I'm not ignoring your points, but these things would have happened regardless.

Bobflipaburger:
PC has said that he wants players that can do special things...My assumption was that he would bring a new, lost, or forgotten stratgy that other teams couldn't exactly game plan for very well, yet I see nothing of the sort. Let's not confuse the General Manager responsible for stirring up the pot and acquiring talent, with the head coach position. Perhaps I am missing something, so what do you credit him for?

UR A HATER

 

[bobflipaburger]

ONE:
Addressing the o-line wasn't some draft genious coache's move, as much as it was absolutely necessary, and the rest of the league thought it was whack to take Carpenter with that high of a pick considering what was available. Replacing older players with younger players is also something that eventually just happens because it's roster necessary. I'm not ignoring your points, but these things would have happened regardless.

Bobflipaburger:
PC has said that he wants players that can do special things...My assumption was that he would bring a new, lost, or forgotten stratgy that other teams couldn't exactly game plan for very well, yet I see nothing of the sort. Let's not confuse the General Manager responsible for stirring up the pot and acquiring talent, with the head coach position. Perhaps I am missing something, so what do you credit him for?

Carroll is VP of football operations. All personnel decisions run through him. Don't kid yourself, PC has had a lot to do with the talent brought into this organization.

Also I credit him with changing the identity of our defense... Or better yet, giving an identity to our defense. Big, physical, playmakers at safety, and as much as PC's detractors like to call this team undisciplined, the defense (minus Brandon Browner and that one drive against the Ravens) is a pretty discipline group. If you want to do something teams can't gameplan for, just build a team that's better than theirs... I'm not sure exactly what you want, some flukey triple option thing like Denver's using right now?

 

[JustDoug]

Carroll is VP of football operations. All personnel decisions run through him. Don't kid yourself, PC has had a lot to do with the talent brought into this organization.

Also I credit him with changing the identity of our defense... Or better yet, giving an identity to our defense. Big, physical, playmakers at safety, and as much as PC's detractors like to call this team undisciplined, the defense (minus Brandon Browner and that one drive against the Ravens) is a pretty discipline group. If you want to do something teams can't gameplan for, just build a team that's better than theirs... I'm not sure exactly what you want, some flukey triple option thing like Denver's using right now?

Bob, thanks for an intelligent response. I agree with your comments about the defense, so you got me there. Yes, the Leo & Lion thing was working, and the 4-3 to 3-4 hybrid worked well last season with all the DB's. Guess I was thinking more about the broken offensive strategies of having two tall receivers that teams couldn't match up with, or two tight end sets that defensive rotations couldn't properly respond to, or perhaps a gaurd & tackle pull that bulldozes for many rushing yards. Smash mouth football where nobody can stop this play. That's what I want, and don't see happening.

 

[bobflipaburger]

The offense is young, probably best to stay relatively vanilla for now.

 

[JustDoug]

The offense is young, probably best to stay relatively vanilla for now.

The offense is ranked 29th in a league of 32 teams currently, and our home team just lost the entire right side of the o-line for the rest of the year, and the rest of the o-line has suffered game missing injuries as well, not that there was much spark before that happened either. Mr. VP of football operations is averaging 16 points per game, in a league where if you can't score thirty or more points per game, you are not likely to win most of them and become a champion (see win/loss record). PC has been given everything that he could want as far as authority goes. Still this isn't no Buddy Ryan 46 defense, there ain't no twin towers of receivers like the Rams used to employ, ain't no certain mis-matches with on field strategy like New England, and I contend no blue print for success down the road.

Sure every team lays an egg once in a while, and losing teams do get up for a game occasionally because they are tired of constantly losing, but that's all we are seeing here. Prior comments on this thread would indicate that PC is some sort of football legend with scores of seven, eight, nine, out of a possible ten, well that's just not the case. It's as described though...Vanilla, as in mediocre, and that's about the worst possible scenario that could happen to an NFL franchise. No fear though, because after every miserable loss, PC tells us that he is excited. I expect that the 49'ers are excited too.

Whacked Dougie!

 

[bobflipaburger]

Injuries happen, I don't see how you can hold that against the coaching staff. The offense isn't great, but it was starting to click a little. The line was really starting to get things together, I hope this doesn't set the progression of the line back too much. It sounds like you're expecting too much though, this offense (as bad as it has been) has exceeded my expectations. I will point out though that we had the two game whitehurst started and 2 bad games from T-jack against Dallas and Pittsburgh. Other than that, the offense has actually been ok. I'm not sure what your definition of "twin towers" is, but 6'4'' on one side and 6'5" on the other seems like it should fit the bill. And if Carlson was healthy yoou'd see a lot more 2 TE sets.

Also by vanilla, I meant simple.

 

[twelvewins]

I guess I'm the target of this hate then since I gave pc a high score after beating a top 10 NFL franchise at home. I thought running out the clock with our lousy offense against Baltimore's outstanding offense was a sign of improvement. Especially since we used to win these games praying the defense would hold. Considering we were touchdown dogs at home, I'd say pc earned a 9.

 

[twelvewins]

Sorry, intended to say Baltimore's outstanding defense. Not offense. I'm sure you guys could follow that though...

 

[JustDoug]

I'm not targeting anybody or hating anybody or holding the coach accountable for injuries. Just saying that 16 points per game in this league is incredibly poor, and due to key injuries of late, it's unlikely that legendary sixteen point performance outburst of 2011 will continue. Lol... Admittedly the vitory over Baltimore was a good one.

Actualy I miss the days of low scoring defensive football. Used to be a field goal meant something good, and a touchdown was something special. In today's game a field goal is a disapointment, and a touchdown means little if your team can't score another right away. I pray we don't sack the Ram's quarterback today, tired of the 15 yard penalties...off topic.