sherman wanting more money?

[#ONE]

They've had opportunities to take CBs higher, they also took their safeties before they took corners even though they needed both.

And yes, Sherman is one of the top CBs in the league. But I do think he's very much a system player, and not nearly as close to as valuable to the defense as ET. If they see Sherman as expendable, because they don't believe in spending money on corners, or there's someone cheaper out there that can step in and so similar things, or if the league adapts somehow and they want to alter the system, or if Sherman can't find enough people to feel disrespected by to keep that chip on his shoulder and his production falls, I can absolutely see us letting him walk.

They've had several opportunities to draft a QB higher than Russell.... Does that mean they don't covet Russell?? Argument holds no merit.

 

[Mark Ramich]

thank you

 

[bobflipaburger]

They've had several opportunities to draft a QB higher than Russell.... Does that mean they don't covet Russell?? Argument holds no merit.

Whatever man, I think it's pretty apparent safeties are more important to these guys than corners.

 

[#ONE]

Whatever man, I think it's pretty apparent safeties are more important to these guys than corners.

Clearly.

 

[SeaHawksHuddle]

I gotta go with #ONE on this. Draft position has no indication on how they value position groups. They got Sherman in the 5th because others didn't value him as a good corner. Not because they value the position group less.

 

[bobflipaburger]

I'm looking at it as they value Safeties A LOT, not that they don't value CBs. They picked ET in the first round, he's the ONLY player in the secondary they've spent higher than a 4th round pick on. And that was their first draft, they could have gone ANY direction there, the roster at that point literally had nothing to build around long term other than Brandon Mebane and Max Unger.

 

[SeaHawksHuddle]

But if they knew no one coveted large CBs like they did, why would they spend a high pick on said CB. The more likely scenario is that they evaluate safeties like everyone else does.

 

[bobflipaburger]

I don't think that's true, I mean a lot of people thought of Kam as an OLB. They evaluate safeties like they evaluate every other position, ET has a unique skill set.

And it's not like they valued Sherm all that highly when they drafted him, he sat for half of his rookie season. I'm not even sure how many games he dressed for that year.

 

[SeaHawksHuddle]

Except that Chancellor played corner and then safety in college.

And just like assuming they value safeties higher than corners, you are assuming they didn't value him just because he sat. Those two things aren't linked. It's more likely he sat because he wasn't showing what he needed to in practice over Trufant. By your logic, the 49ers didn't value Kaepernick because he sat. The Packers didn't value Aaron Rodgers because he sat. Etc...

 

[bobflipaburger]

He was still perceived to be too big to play safety by a lot of people.

I don't think it's a stretch to say they value safeties over corner, because the safeties are what the defense is really centered around. ET, imo, is by far the most important player on defense.

 

[SeaHawksHuddle]

In your opinion, sure. But not necessarily in theirs. Red Bryant is unique to what they want to do as well. ET is like an Polamalu or a Reed. You don't pass on him regardless of how you value the position group.

Come on man. Fess up. Earl's draft position is no real indication how they value position groups. That's all #ONE and I were saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[bobflipaburger]

I'll grant it doesn't prove my point by itself, but I absolutely think there's something to be said for Earl being the only player in the entire secondary that PC/JS have picked in the first two days of the draft. Obviously he's a special talent, but so are Jason Pierre-Paul and Mike Iupati, we could have used either one of them, and they were still on the board when we took Earl.

 

[SeaHawksHuddle]

Totally true. But I think that, again, speaks about Earl as a player, not the position group as a whole.

 

[TheBandwagon]

They picked ET over JPP because ET graded out higher on their board. They even felt they got the best FS in the draft over Eric Berry, that's how highly they thought of him talent-wise. JPP's upside as a prospect was off the charts but so was the bust potential. With all due respect to ET if they had the benefit of hindsight they probably would have picked JPP instead, or at least they would have after the '11 season.
It seems like the order of priority with the current regime is talent, then position value, then team need. The Michael pick this year pretty much confirms that, and their philosophy is to never be forced to draft for need to fill a hole if they can help it. If their b.p.a. pick happens to fill an immediate need then that's a bonus but if need and talent are sort of at odds then they will go with the talent pick every time. JS even said as much about last year's draft and why they went almost exclusively with defensive players when he was asked about it. He said they didn't go in with the intention of doing that, it just so happened that every time it was their turn to pick, the highest rated player on their board just happened to be a defensive player.
Their core strategy is to load up on as much talent as possible and let the rest, like filling team needs, take care of itself via trickle down effect. It's the prime reason they've been able to put together arguably the most talented and deepest roster in the league in 3 years. The only reason why they picked ET so high but not Sherman, Kam or anyone else in the secondary is because he graded out high while the others didn't. Sherman and Kam both had question marks while they pretty much saw ET as a slam dunk.

 

[bobflipaburger]

I'd agree with most of that. I don't agree that they'd pick JPP over Earl even with hindsight.

I don't believe they strictly believe in going BPA. This draft, yeah I buy that, because there really weren't any needs to fill. But in previous drafts? All of their 1st and 2nd round picks: Okung, filled a huge need, Earl filled a huge need, Carpenter was supposed to fill a huge need, Irvin filled a need, Wagner filled a need, Tate was drafted at a position of need, but I wouldn't say he "filled a need" because he really didn't get significant playing time his first two seasons. They address their needs with their high picks, they just do a really job of finding players that fit what they're trying to do, and they do an awesome job of getting value for their picks in trades. Not just when trading up or down, but when they trade for players too. They got Leon for like a 5th round pick I think, getting Harvin was cheaper than trading up for a player like Tavon Austin

 

[TheBandwagon]

When you talk about those picks, like Okung and ET, they were made back when there were so many team needs that every pick they made filled one. But still they made those picks because they were the highest rated players on their board first and foremost, not primarily because they filled needs. Okung might be an exception because he's a LT, arguably the 2nd most important position on the team after QB and the need to replace Walter Jones and solidify the position was pretty substantial. But I strongly believe that they still would not have picked Okung or even a LT at all if he didn't have the talent and upside that he did. As important as LT is they would rather go after say, an all pro caliber LB over a middle of the road LT. That's what they do different than most every other team out there.
Same deal with Bruce Irvin. They didn't so much draft Irvin because of the need for a pass rusher. It factored in but it wasn't the primary reason. They drafted him because Pete Carroll had a man crush on the guy and his 4.45 speed. Carroll felt (and still feels) that Irvin can one day reach the same class as some of the best pass rushers to ever play the game. He's compared Irvin's upside to the likes of Derrick Thomas, Chris Doleman and Jevon Kearse. If Irvin hadn't been in the picture there's a good chance the Hawks wouldn't have drafted a pass rusher at all with that pick if Coples, Ingram and the others didn't excite them.

 

[bobflipaburger]

They addressed their biggest needs each year early in the draft... Well, other than QB, but that worked out pretty well for them. It hasn't worked out very well for most of the QBs they had a shot at. Anyways, my point is they aren't strictly going BPA, they've found a pretty ideal balance.

 

[TheBandwagon]

The way they went about their search for a franchise QB might be a good example of talent over team need. They didn't really go all out to fill the need until this last year when they brought in both Flynn and RW. They were hurting pretty bad for a decent QB but rather than go after Kolb, Carson Palmer or anyone else available, they decided to bide their time while they brought in a relative scrub like Tjack to hold down the fort to play out what was somewhat of a throwaway season in '11 until the right candidate came along. Rather than revolving anything around filling the position in '10 or '11, they decided to wait til next year while focusing on bringing in blue chip talent at other positions instead.
Had they felt Okung was going to be anything less than an elite LT there's a good chance they would have done the same thing at LT and left the need unaddressed and thrown in a spacefiller like they did at QB, even if it would have cost them a few games in a season that they had no chance in anyway.
Addressing QB and LT was probably the most important task facing Pete and John when they took over but you never got the sense that they were ever in any hurry to fill them. As a result they have filled both positions with pro bowlers.

 

[TheBandwagon]

I pretty much agree with you. They don't strictly go bpa every time, there's always going to be some gray area there depending on the circumstances. But overall I think more often than not it's been the primary component to their strategy.
If anything, addressing team needs now might be even more important than when they had a gutted roster a few years ago. Need positions are fewer but the importance of addressing them specifically are arguably greater because they have something legit at stake now, like a Super Bowl =P

 

[szat]

I think when it comes down to it, they will have to decide between keeping ET or Sherm, because they cant afford both.
I think they will go with ET because:
a.) The League values CB over safeties therefor Sherm will demand more money (12M/yr?).
b.) I think ET is a bigger chess piece on this defense then sherm, but they are both game changers.