Tate signs with Lions

[szat]

I think he is saying that the FO isnt loyal seeing the players contracts through....
This regime makes that pretty clear to the players when they arrive that if you produce you will see the field, if you don't you'll be gone.

They gave Clem and Red a second life in the NFL, they flourished and got paid. But when their play diminished, they have to either restructure or be released.

I think its to fault of NFL teams (including our former FO) to keep guys around way past their prime.
I like the cycling of talent and continual churn the seahawks are doing. Yeah your gonna see guys come and go, but the core group they keep in tact. That group is very small:

SEATTLE CORE GROUP:

Russell Wilson
Earl Thomas
Cam Chancellor
Richard Sherman
Max Unger

 

[TheBandwagon]

SEATTLE CORE GROUP:

Russell Wilson
Earl Thomas
Cam Chancellor
Richard Sherman
Max Unger

I'd expand that list to include Wagner, Okung and KJ. I'd now include Byron Maxwell too. Maxwell could develop into an elite DB and he's heading in that direction. Exciting young talent.

 

[TheBandwagon]

I think he is saying that the FO isnt loyal seeing the players contracts through...

I agree. But how often does that happen throughout the league? It's pretty rare that a player will play out his entire contract. They all become vulnerable to getting cut once the guaranteed money's been paid out.

 

[RAMSWRATH]

Be prepared to see that core group change significantly in 3 years. As in no one is safe.

 

[Idahawk]

Everybody is in a certain time frame to get things done , look at the Broncos there going all in because there window is closing , no different for the
hawks .


Free Brandon Browner

 

[RAMSWRATH]

Everybody is in a certain time frame to get things done , look at the Broncos there going all in because there window is closing , no different for the
hawks .


Free Brandon Browner

True though there were 9 players listed in this thread between two posters as core players. Holding onto 9 for an extended period isn't easy in the NFL for a number of reasons.

 

[TheBandwagon]

True though there were 9 players listed in this thread between two posters as core players. Holding onto 9 for an extended period isn't easy in the NFL for a number of reasons.

Not all will stay. Most will through. The reason Tate walked is because that was a choice the Seahawks made. They could have retained him had they wanted.
Recent free agent signings indicate that not only have the Hawks been adept at talent eval on draft day but they've been applying it in lower tier acquisitions from the scrap heap and from other teams as well. Guys like Giacomini (who the Hawks signed off GB's practice squad and then subsequently became expendable by 7th round draft pick Michael Bowie), Browner from the CFL, Clemons, and Clinton McDonald to name a few. All mostly backup players who signed on with other teams to play a bigger role. Not to mention the signings of Avril and Bennett off free agency and the acquisition of Marshawn Lynch after he'd been all but relegated to the backup spot behind Fred Jackson in Buffalo.

So thinking it's gonna be a one way street straight down for the Seahawks is wishful thinking. There are plenty of ways to keep them in contention for the long term. Henry Melton might be one such move and it looks like it's about 50/50 on something happening there. We'll see what happens.

 

[TheBandwagon]

True though there were 9 players listed in this thread between two posters as core players. Holding onto 9 for an extended period isn't easy in the NFL for a number of reasons.

I remember you recently mentioned that the dismantling has already begun. You notice out of those 9 players listed as core players, ALL of them are still here and will remain with the team for one more full season. So like I was saying before, even if you're right about the fall of the Seahawks, it's not gonna happen in 2014. Which is why the Seahawks have the best chance of any SB winner of the last 10 years to repeat. As long as those guys mentioned are with the Seahawks they will be in a good position to make it there.

 

[RAMSWRATH]

Not all will stay. Most will through. The reason Tate walked is because that was a choice the Seahawks made. They could have retained him had they wanted.
Recent free agent signings indicate that not only have the Hawks been adept at talent eval on draft day but they've been applying it in lower tier acquisitions from the scrap heap and from other teams as well. Guys like Giacomini (who the Hawks signed off GB's practice squad and then subsequently became expendable by 7th round draft pick Michael Bowie), Browner from the CFL, Clemons, and Clinton McDonald to name a few. All mostly backup players who signed on with other teams to play a bigger role. Not to mention the signings of Avril and Bennett off free agency and the acquisition of Marshawn Lynch after he'd been all but relegated to the backup spot behind Fred Jackson in Buffalo.

So thinking it's gonna be a one way street straight down for the Seahawks is wishful thinking. There are plenty of ways to keep them in contention for the long term. Henry Melton might be one such move and it looks like it's about 50/50 on something happening there. We'll see what happens.

From the super bowl it is a one way street down until proven otherwise. We've been through this before and while you can continue to believe in an uncanny ability to find lower tier draft starters I believe in the history which shows it doesn't last long. Plus your recent history has shown a wealth of such success, luck etc. Plus every DC is gunning for you especially within your own division. Seahawks come out and sweep the division in no uncertain terms this year something thy failed at last year then I'll start thinking SB repeat not before.

 

[TheBandwagon]

Seahawks come out and sweep the division in no uncertain terms this year something thy failed at last year then I'll start thinking SB repeat not before.

Sweep the division? Something they failed at last year? Ok, so based on your logic, in order to get to the Super Bowl they have to first sweep their own division. By your own admission they "failed" at that last year. I guess no one gave you the memo that they won the Super Bowl anyway. Sometimes I wonder what planet you're from.

 

[TheBandwagon]

Jim Moore pretty much nailed it...

"Along the lines of the discontent with Tate's contract in Detroit goes the notion this week that the Seahawks are losing irreplaceable players to other poaching teams. Fan favorites like Tate, Red Bryant and Breno Giacomini and others are taking deals with other teams while the Seahawks have been relatively quiet, and some fans are sounding the alarm. To this I can only say calm down, Dude (and please go watch "The Big Lebowski" if these Dude references are getting by you ... it's awesome). Carroll's "Always Compete" mantra relies on a constant influx of talent, which means other parts get rotated out of town. Is Tate the Seahawks' leading receiver with Percy Harvin on the field? Did Seattle lose Giacomini or make room for Alvin Bailey and/or Michael Bowie at right tackle? Is Bryant leaving behind a hole in the defensive line or creating a chance to evolve on defense with a different personnel grouping involving Bennett, Cliff Avril and Greg Scruggs? Fact is that every NFL fan cheers for laundry at some level. The salary-cap and free-agent rules mandate roster turnover and players leaving town. It's natural to be more attached to the guys that helped bring a title home, but Carroll and Schneider have proven to have a plan in place that includes allowing these players to leave. No reason to worry in March about a roster that will continue to grow and change through August."

He's referring to stuff that is impossible for people like Ramswrath to comprehend.

 

[twelvewins]

"But I didn’t feel like I was going to be taken care of. If you just look back at the things that have happened the last few years. They signed Chris Clemons two or three years ago and released him this week. They signed Red Bryant two or three years ago and released him this week. They released some guys who still had a year or two in their contract to make space for me or whoever. I just felt like, I didn’t want that to happen to me.”

Jeez, doesn't Tate understand the realities of a hard cap and the tough decisions a team has to try and keep it all together? There's a hint there that the breakdown might have been in the amount of years the Hawks were willing to commit to him just wasn't enough. Who knows?

That is exactly why I am not concerned about losing Tate to free agency. Dude is not mature enough to be handed the big dollars he is seeking. He has had issues with this in games before and money, like booze, makes you more of what you are. I thank Tate for his hard work and wish him well. But I would not be surprised if he had some trouble on and off the field in Detroit.

 

[BleedsBlue12]

Im not worried about any moves. They won the championship using this same formula. If we lose a gm or HC then I'd worry.


Sent from a cell at the CLink...

 

[TheBandwagon]

Im not worried about any moves. They won the championship using this same formula. If we lose a gm or HC then I'd worry.

What applies more when it comes to assessing the Seahawks and what they have been doing under Pete and John, the history of the NFL over the last 10 or so years or the recent history of the team itself over the last 4? "Oh, this Seahawk team is going down. That's the way of things in the NFL for Super Bowl champions." This team is all about bucking convention and flying in the face of history. Pete and John didn't just set out to win one Super Bowl. They set out to try and build something that lasts in an era where a lot of people don't think it can be done. They are still on track. Some people still don't even realize or understand what the Seahawks are doing.

 

[RAMSWRATH]

Sweep the division? Something they failed at last year? Ok, so based on your logic, in order to get to the Super Bowl they have to first sweep their own division. By your own admission they "failed" at that last year. I guess no one gave you the memo that they won the Super Bowl anyway. Sometimes I wonder what planet you're from.

Of course they won the SB as I predicted. Niners would have beaten the Broncos too. Sweeping the best division is a good indicator especially if the goal is repeating as SB champion. My feet are firmly on planet earth.

 

[RAMSWRATH]

Jim Moore pretty much nailed it...

"Along the lines of the discontent with Tate's contract in Detroit goes the notion this week that the Seahawks are losing irreplaceable players to other poaching teams. Fan favorites like Tate, Red Bryant and Breno Giacomini and others are taking deals with other teams while the Seahawks have been relatively quiet, and some fans are sounding the alarm. To this I can only say calm down, Dude (and please go watch "The Big Lebowski" if these Dude references are getting by you ... it's awesome). Carroll's "Always Compete" mantra relies on a constant influx of talent, which means other parts get rotated out of town. Is Tate the Seahawks' leading receiver with Percy Harvin on the field? Did Seattle lose Giacomini or make room for Alvin Bailey and/or Michael Bowie at right tackle? Is Bryant leaving behind a hole in the defensive line or creating a chance to evolve on defense with a different personnel grouping involving Bennett, Cliff Avril and Greg Scruggs? Fact is that every NFL fan cheers for laundry at some level. The salary-cap and free-agent rules mandate roster turnover and players leaving town. It's natural to be more attached to the guys that helped bring a title home, but Carroll and Schneider have proven to have a plan in place that includes allowing these players to leave. No reason to worry in March about a roster that will continue to grow and change through August."

He's referring to stuff that is impossible for people like Ramswrath to comprehend.

Oh I comprehend I merely refuse to wallow in the koolade pool. Every team cycles through players every season. Winning teams usually HAVE to do so more than others. Seahawks continuing luck at getting starters on the cheap through the draft, CFL or otherwise won't last. What you can't comprehend is the Seahawks haven't invented anything. Their "plan" is not unique as it has been SOP throughout the NFL because of the salary cap and free agency.

 

[szat]

I'd expand that list to include Wagner, Okung and KJ. I'd now include Byron Maxwell too. Maxwell could develop into an elite DB and he's heading in that direction. Exciting young talent.

I contemplated Wagner, but not Okung. He is great player in a premium position, but I don't think he is core. He is making 11M this year and 7M in 2015, after that he'll be hard to resign with all our other core players coming due.

 

[TheBandwagon]

Seahawks continuing luck at getting starters on the cheap through the draft, CFL or otherwise won't last.

Call it luck if you want. They've been doing it consistently since Pete and John got here. But now all of a sudden, since they won the Super Bowl, it's all gonna stop. They will be unable to keep their own house in order and they will fail at finding an influx of talent. The Super Bowl is a purely negative cause and effect thing.
Was building the Steelers of the '70s pure luck, or the 49ers of the 80s? Those teams were built purely through the draft. And they kept drafting better than all others even when the system penalizes success on draft day. All those Super Bowl wins by the Patriots, and the fact that they've stayed at or near the top for over 12 years, was all pure luck. Every Super Bowl champion throughout the salary cap era has all been pure luck. No one franchise is really better than another. Some are just luckier than others.
Maybe if Pete and John take to rubbing a Buddha statue it might help.

 

[TheBandwagon]

I contemplated Wagner, but not Okung. He is great player in a premium position, but I don't think he is core. He is making 11M this year and 7M in 2015, after that he'll be hard to resign with all our other core players coming due.

You mentioned a premium position, which is why I considered him as a core player. You want to let a top 5 LT walk? The Hawks would be seriously compromising themselves if they let that happen, unless they can find another cheap alternative. You can't fake it at that position. As you probably agree, it's the 2nd most important position on the team.

 

[bobflipaburger]

Okung came in before the new CBA, his next contract might actually be smaller than his current one.

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